Bud Kennedy over at the Startlegram refers to my buddy Radley Balko‘s research at Reason Magazine to point out — hey, guess what, places where there are more illegal immigrants have less violent crime.
Exhibit A: El Paso.
The West Texas twin city to drug-riddled Juarez is about one-fourth foreign-born. Yet it’s usually ranked as the nation’s No. 2 or No. 3 safest city.
(San Antonio is No. 9. Fort Worth is No. 10.)
“It just always seemed remarkable to me that El Paso has such a low crime rate,” said Radley Balko, a Reason senior editor and writer on law enforcement and criminal-justice issues.
“All the academic evidence concludes that immigrants are much less prone to violence than the native population.”
Radley’s full piece here.
More on crime and immigration here.
“All the academic evidence concludes that immigrants are much less prone to violence than the native population” WTF?
So how much violence are they allowed? The “native population†by definition has a right to be here. Those that come into this country illegally don’t. We don’t arrest American citizens for what they may do, but an illegal has already committed at least one offense merely by his/her presence.
Does it take really require studies or think tanks to question whether an open border is dangerous for America?
A lot of these “pro immigrant” studies conflate legal immigrants with illegals to arrive at their findings.. It makes perfect sense that a guy coming from India legally would mind his P’s & Q’s while in OUR country; the guy that sneaks across the border taking a wage depressed job, turning his kids over to our schools to educate, committing tax fraud, ID theft, refusing to assimilate, not so much.
According to the Heritage Foundation, even the illegals that pay taxes receive 3 dollars in social benefits for every dollar they contribute.
I’d be willing to wager that the vast majority that condone this foreign invasion by those who aren’t “immigrants” by the traditional definition, rather they’re colonialists with no allegiance to this country, lock the doors of their homes, are selective about who comes in their houses and have fences that define their borders.
What other country in the history of the world would allow gate crashers to homestead within it’s sovereign borders and condition it’s own populace to accommodate the interlopers?
I question the veracity of the crime stats of El Paso. I can’t help but wonder how many offenses are created by “immigrants†that simply melt back across the border before capture. How many “immigrants†are simply deported rather than prosecuted? How many arrestees are even asked their “immigrant†status when booked? El Paso, like most American cities, has a vested interest in keeping it’s UCR as low as possible. Figures don’t lie, but liars figure.
I don’t just blame the illegal aliens themselves for this outrage-during the presidential campaign, neither Obama or McCain talked about the problem of illegal immigration (other than Obama saying he’d put an end to INS raids and praised the idea of giving them Driver’s Licenses) because both political parties want to keep that border open against the will of the majority of the American people (see the propositions passed in Arizona and California). Hell, the current POTUS has an illegal alien aunt living here!
Coming to the United States is not a universal entitlement. Those that come here illegally should have human rights, but not civil rights. They should not have access to our civil courts, to free education, to welfare. All they deserve when caught is deportation. Those citizens of this country that harbor, hire or enable them deserve jail.
As long as we’re citing studies-http://www.usillegalaliens.com/
Misleading headliner Trey, Simply by being here, illegal immigrants commit crime. That is why they are called ILLEGAL immigrants, add on the crimes they then commit to stay here, ID theft, fraud, etc andthe numbers just keep going up.
As long as we’re citing studies-http://www.usillegalaliens.com/
That is a polemic not a study. The premise in the first paragraph is incorrect. The notion that prior waves of immigrants were all legal is false. They were mostly legal, but by no means completely legal.
Seems like both sides of this issue is fond of quoting numbers that tend to cancel out the other side. As long as there are jobs here that people will perform for less than current residents will, the temptation to come illegally will remain.
Well, immediately south of my home is southeast Dallas’ largest neighborhood Pleasant Grove (Bruton Road to I-175 Hawn) and when the population therein roughly doubled earlier this century with Mexicans…(largely ‘illegal immigrants’ if my interactive bi-lingual dialog radar is any indication…. ) the crime dropped precipitously. As in ‘let’s go eat tonight in Pleasant Grove at one of the 790 Mexican restaturants along Lake June)
Whereas before, in the 80s, it was largely aging blue collar working class white.
Then circa late 80s into the mid 90s, largely black.
Don’t shoot the messenger.
(This is the wrong blog to use that line. So let’s say: ‘Don’t castrate the squid’.)
“That is a polemic not a study. The premise in the first paragraph is incorrect. The notion that prior waves of immigrants were all legal is false. They were mostly legal, but by no means completely legal.
Seems like both sides of this issue is fond of quoting numbers that tend to cancel out the other side. As long as there are jobs here that people will perform for less than current residents will, the temptation to come illegally will remain” Frank
You concede that prior waves of immigrants were “mostly” legal; my contention is that the current hoards pouring across our border by the thousands daily are not immigrants, they’re looters siphoning the fruits of 200 + years of American effort.
“As long as there are jobs here that people will perform for less than current residents will, the temptation to come illegally will remain.” Frank
This position usually segues into the canard that “they’re only doing jobs Americans won’t do.”
Where I grew up American citizens do roofing, they build houses, and they pour concrete. The reason you don’t see Americans doing these jobs here is because the wages for such work have been so depressed Americans can’t afford to take them, they’ve been pushed out by the illegals who can live on a 3rd world wage sending half that wage back to where they’re from-while we give them free education and health care.
Rawlins you seem to be saying that the drop in crime is commensurate with the arrival of the illegals. Are we do believe that one who’s mere presence is a criminal offense is an otherwise law abiding “citizen?†Is it just possible that in that time period crime in general was on the decline?
I cannot fathom why the whole illegal issue is an issue. We have borders. We have immigration laws. If someone is in this country illegally, they need deported, I don’t care if they’re from Greece or Guatemala.
If the US Government says we have 11 million illegals in this country today, its a safe bet we probably have double that. When Obama shoves his amnesty bill down our throats, with chain migration we could be looking at 40-50 million uneducated illiterate people within our borders to take care of, with more on the way banking on the next amnesty. Right about the time we’re looking at universal health care.
Keith, this is not a debate for me. There is nothing to win or lose, only to (in my case) report. I have written this year a DMN op-ed about our Southeast Dallas Division police chief, Patricia Paulhill and the disproportionate criminal decline in the last few years vs. all but one of the other 7 Dallas Police divisions. I was just telling you that enormous neighborhood’s (Pleasant Grove….I-175 east to Balch Springs, Bruton Road south to I-175) population doubled if not tripled, the crime rate fell at a rate notably more than the average in crime decline elsewhere in the city. I remind you—the population at least doubled. I’m betting it tripled.
Does that mean Mexicans (yes, most who moved this century to PG are Mexicans…meaning from Mexico) are less likely to do crimes than whites or blacks? Hardly. But were there a lot less crimes when it went brown than when it was low income black or aged and decaped white? In this case yes. In other places that has hardly been the case. But I was not singing ‘We are the world’. I was reporting on a unique phenom I have witnessed south of me in the immediate Pleasant Grove area of Dallas…where it was once largely declining white and then became low income declining black and then became lively and jam packed…not an empty store front, lower crime area.
I hesitated to even post this because it’s not something people want to hear. And they likely have no similar firsthand reference to mull. I’d be willing to bet there are plenty of areas nationwide that when they went Hispanic went downhill and became dangerous. Its just that I have witnessed the complete opposite in Pleasant Grove.
When it was either of the first racial demographic incarnations, I seldom went south to shop or eat. The shopping center storefronts were all a ghost town and it felt seedy and pointless in the 90s. In this century, I rather enjoy the scene. It’s like parts of San Antonio (where I spent a ton of time) when I was growing up. In fact I am about to go to Pleasant Grove to eat Mexican food at Cuquita’s on Lake June, where it moved after they sold their very popular location on Henderson Avenue. Their new location on Lake June was a boarded up free-standing hovel for 20 years empty until they gutted it and opened in one week.
Rawlins I respect you and appreciate your erudite commentary on this blog. I feel like I’m getting a free education reading your posts.
I do have a little firsthand experience with this topic as well. I’d offer that because less crime may be reported doesn’t mean it isn’t going on. Some illegals (at least until they learn they have a “right” to be here) hesitate to report to the police because of the (unwarranted) fear of being deported. Some offenses, if the suspect isn’t caught, cannot be traced to the illegal alien. How many burglaries, robberies, and car theft offense reports list an Hispanic male as the suspect with no clue to his immigration status?
I agree with you that this is an issue many just don’t want to discuss. That point was driven home to me in the fall of ’07.
In August of 2007 an illegal alien from Central America by the name of Jose Carranza murdered, execution style, three young African Americans in NJ who by all accounts were good kids with a full life ahead of them. Carranza had a prior arrest for the rape of a child.
Instead of black “leaders” like Jackson and Sharpton expressing outrage over the open borders, the lax enforcement that led to the murder of these kids, they were raising hell in Jena LA in September of 07 over an incident that, as certain facts unfolded, may not have been what was initially reported. Those kids would be alive today if Carranza wouldn’t have been in the country, yet there was little coverage and practically no national outrage over this incident. All of the national media was focused on Jena LA.
I’ve read, and I can’t cite the source, that the United States welcomes more legal immigrants annually that the rest of the world combined. If true, the reason is because more people want to come here than any where else, a compliment to whats been accomplished over the last 200 years.
I’m not listening to that corny Lee Greenwood song as I type this, but I do believe that in the history of the world the United States is the greatest country ever created. Nothing was handed to us, we fought a Revolutionary War, a Civil War, we saved Europe twice, we cleared the way for the Civil Rights Movement and we gave the world Michael Jackson (OK, so we’re not perfect). Folks can come here legally, if they pay the cover charge and wait their turn.
I find it outrageous that so many, with their entitlement mentality, wander in here and make demands, bringing with them drugs, disease and a resistance to assimilation.
What other country in the history of the world would merely look on as during the last couple of May 1sts when hundreds of illegals across the nation took to the streets and demanded their “rights?â€
My wife says I have a simplistic solution to a complex problem. What is so complex about our immigration laws? Maybe I’m just a simpleton, but the way I see it the only viable consequence to illegal immigration should be deportation. If one is knowingly hiring and enabling the illegal, we have laws addressing that.
I’ve posted more on this topic that I have any other here on Trey’s blog, guess I better shut up now before Trey gets the hook.
Please pardon any grammatical or spelling errors, I have trouble seeing the blog as I’m typing, not that I’m Ian Fleming under any circumstance.
The headline for that article should be “Bud Kennedy and honesty and intelligence aren’t linked”. I can’t help but laugh at the people who constantly criticize Steve Blow, but take everything lil’ Bud says as pure gospel. I go through Pleasant Grove all the time, i really enjoy seeing the “artwork” on all the private homeowners fences. Of course, that’s not a crime is it? Just poor misunderstood youth expressing themselves, and we all know that where that kind of public “artwork”is prevelant crime is always low.
It isn’t relevant. If crime ceased all together as a result of illegal immigration it doesn’t negate our laws passed based on republican processes of representative government. If people disagree with the laws of the country they should change them …not ignore them. Who gets to make the list of “valid” laws passed by the various legislative bodies around the country. If I go to the polls and vote for someone who agrees with me that the United States has a right to secure borders and enough of my fellow citizens join in that vote and we elect enough of these people to pass laws securing the borders….where does the right ot systemically ignore these laws come from? Are we the only people in the world without the right to determine who enters our country?
There was a protest in California yesterday where a bunch of people where screaming about the bankrupt state government withholding payments to illegals. WTF is that all about…takes some serious gall to believe that if your manage to avoid capture at the border then you are entitled to payments by the legal citizens.
“Where I grew up American citizens do roofing, they build houses, and they pour concrete. The reason you don’t see Americans doing these jobs here is because the wages for such work have been so depressed Americans can’t afford to take them, they’ve been pushed out by the illegals who can live on a 3rd world wage sending half that wage back to where they’re from-while we give them free education and health care.”
I realize this is an emotionally charged issue. I am not buying this argument, however. Many Americans don’t want those jobs. They believe they are “owed” more and better. I am second generation American from both sides. My grandparents came to this country, and not all legally, from Europe. They took jobs others wouldn’t do in some cases, mining, foundry work. In the case of one of my grandfathers, he became a citizen only in order to go to work in a union foundry. His children, like the children of many immigrants today, became Americans. Few Americans today would do the work they did. So, immigrants do it.
My brother lives in New Orleans. Many contractors had to hire workers from South America to work in construction. Why? Because US workers would not take the jobs. These were not low paying jobs. Even Jesse Jackson put together a much publicized job bus of workers to New Orleans. The obvious intent was to put the right minority to work. Jackson’s bus was a bust.
Canada has quite a successful guest worker program with Mexico. We could do that, but we would rather yammer about how the jobs should go to Americans. They just need to pay more.
Ideally, those who want to come here to work should become citizens. The reality is that some do not want to become citizens, but they do provide a service. So, let’s figure out how to regulate that and make it win win.
As for the low crime figure, I read another article today that cited a study which tied the preponderance of families to low crime. Do you think that there is anything that our government is doing to discourage families? Some 60% of the African American births are out of wedlock. This is an enormous increase since the advent of the “Great Society.”
“I am not buying this argument, however. Many Americans don’t want those jobs”-Frank
Yeah Frank I just lied through my teeth. Where I’m from Americans aren’t doing blue collar jobs that pay a first world wage, they’re all Harvard graduates.
Family-how many young Mexican males separate from their wives and kids to come here and work?
Bottom line to all of this is, either we have a border or we don’t. Eiither we have immigration laws or we don’t.
Frank, if I break into your house do I get to live there? What’s for dinner Frank, I’m in the mood for Thai.
Great discussion. I’ve got mixed and conflicting opinions on this. I like the input.
And I had Thai last night.
Thanks, everyone.