Yeah, But He Did Lie, So…

From Matt Welch:

It is telling that so many people who claim to be speaking on the side of Truth, Justice, and the American Way of Journalism have consistently focused their outrage-o-meters at individual townhall attendees, political broadcast entertainers, and the lesser lights of a lame (if resurgent-by-default) opposition party, while letting walk nearly fact-check-free the non-irrelevant occupant of 1600 Pennsylvania Avenue. If calling out lies and misrepresentations about a significant policy proposal is such pressing journalistic business—and it should be!—you’d think the watchdogs might start with the guy doing the proposing.

Full piece here.

Comments

  1. Kirk says:

    Oh dear, I’ve fouled my trousers.

  2. Jack E. Jett says:

    H.R. 3200: Sec 246 — NO FEDERAL PAYMENT FOR UNDOCUMENTED ALIENS

    Nothing in this subtitle shall allow Federal payments for affordability credits on behalf of individuals who are not lawfully present in the United States.

    Also, under current law, those in the country illegally don’t qualify for federal health programs. Of interest: About half of illegal immigrants have health insurance now, according to the nonpartisan Pew Hispanic Center, which says those who lack insurance do so principally because their employers don’t offer it.

    “Misleading GOP Health Care Claims” July 23

  3. Garrison Fan says:

    Does the Health Care Bill Bar Illegal Aliens from Taxpayer Funds? Not Really

    On its face, the proposed health care bill seems to deny benefits to illegal aliens:

    “Nothing in this subtitle shall allow Federal payments for affordability credits on behalf of individuals who are not lawfully present in the United States.” (See Section 246.)

    But this language does not provide any mechanism to ensure illegal aliens will actually be prevented from accessing the system.

    Typically, aliens wishing to access taxpayer-funded benefits via a social program must be vetted through the Systematic Alien Verification for Entitlements (SAVE) program in order to verify legal status. It is used in determining aid eligibility for a number of governmental programs – e.g. Medicaid, TANF – and you would expect Congress to mandate the use of SAVE in the health care legislation, but the bill does not. U.S. Citizenship and Immigration Services explains that the SAVE program is “designed to aid benefit-granting agencies in determining an applicant’s immigration status, and thereby ensure that only entitled applicants receive federal, state, or local public benefits.”

    One congressman attempted to amend the health care bill in order to ensure illegal aliens could not benefit. Among other things, the amendment would have mandated the use of the SAVE program. However, the amendment failed by one vote. This amendment’s failure to pass indicates that Congress is not serious about preventing illegal aliens from accessing taxpayer-subsidized health care under the new proposal.

    http://www.cis.org/feere/healthcare

  4. So now there are only 34 million without health insurance instead of the 46 million the democrats have been claiming….of course that is lowballing the number of illegals to 12 million….that number fluxuates depending on what “victims R us” group is doing the counting.

  5. Dwayne says:

    Oh Garrison…

    Taller People Make Happier People, Study Shows

    http://www.redorbit.com/news/health/1750054/taller_people_make_happier_people_study_shows/

  6. amanda says:

    As someone who worked in healthcare, in the trenches, let me say this again for the folks in the cheap seats, THE PRESIDENT’S PLAN WON’T WORK.

    MEDICARE DOESN’T WORK.

    MEDICAID DOESN’T WORK.

    CHIPS DOESN’T WORK.

    They don’t. Period.

    As for the empty promises, the preventative care…if it was financially feasable across the board, then all insurance carriers would already be doing it. The system WILL COLLAPSE.

    There aren’t enough doctors, providers, clinics and hospitals to implement what is being pitched.

    Even worse, innovations in pharma and treatment will stop. Why? Because it will take YEARS for new drugs and treatments to be added to the compensation model. With no financial carrot, the market responds by LIMITING WHAT IS OFFERED.

    And, I’ll say this. I don’t agree with the disruption last night. However, we are at a point of civil unrest. It will get worse until it gets better.

  7. Jack E. Jett says:

    I know this is clearly a blindspot for all libertarians and right wingers.

    There is a certain irony that there is support for an asshole yelling “liar” when a President is trying to save lives, but if someone said something like that when GW was spending trillions to kill needlessly, they were a traitor.

    I agree with Amanda that the civil unrest will get worse before it gets better.
    It is sad.

  8. amanda says:

    No, Jack, it’s not sad. It’s necessary.

  9. I do think the congressman should have waited until Obama finished lying before pointing it out….it is rude to interrupt in the middle.

  10. I would much more enjoy debating this issue if they would put out a health plan and then say “this is it”. It seems like he is talking about a plan that doesn’t exist yet.
    Whatever this magic plan is will then end up being railroaded through at 3:00 a.m. Right now it appears they are just trying to get support for this yet undisclosed plan so they can then slam it on us.

    It’s very annoying. But above all…. Amanda is right… Government doesn’t work, and on the Federal level… it really doesn’t work.
    But A Skittles Shitting Unicorn will be supplied to every man woman and child… because we can not deny people the ability to “taste the rainbow!” that will be exploding out of a Unicorns butt.

  11. Jack E. Jett says:

    I think it is sad that the country is so divided.

    It is almost like conservatives and liberal live on two different planets. That our thought process is so different. I don’t see either side giving an inch. I see us becoming more and more separate.

    I wonder if in 50 years people will all live in our own isolated communities with our own mini governments.

  12. Dallasite says:

    “I wonder if in 50 years people will all live in our own isolated communities with our own mini governments.”

    I foresee it working something like this:

    There will be laissez faire capitalist governments, Socialist governments, and a whole bunch of governments somewhere in between.

    The Socialist areas will have exorbitant unemployment rates. There will be a much higher population of the sick, lazy, mentally ill, and criminal. The governments there will run much higher deficits because the budgets will be overloaded caring for those that unable or unwilling to work. The high tax rates required to support the massive entitlement programs will force businesses to move to the more capitalist areas in order to compete. As this forces the tax base downward, the government deficits will continue to increase. They will have higher crime rates typically associated with high unemployment. They will release a constant stream of studies reporting how much higher their healthcare, education, and retirement systems are ranked vs their more capitalist neighbors.

    The Capitalist areas will have jobs, lots of jobs. More and more businesses and entrepreneurs will relocate to these areas to avoid high regulation and taxation. The resulting economic growth will increase tax revenues even while the government lowers tax rates. While there will be a great disparity between the poor and the wealthy, the poor will have a higher standard of living than their brethren in the Socialist areas. Being laissez faire, the economic swings of boom and bust will be much greater, but over time even the busts will be better than in the Socialist areas. Despite the reports produced to by their Socialist neighbors, these areas will have a much higher quality of healthcare, and education, and because each person will personal retirement accounts, instead of a government run transfer system, retirement quality of life will be exponentially higher than in the Socialist areas.

    Eventually, the Socialists will start moving to the Capitalist areas looking for jobs. They will inevitably start whining about how awful things are, and how much better their Socialist areas are. They will cry about how unfair it is that the Capitalist areas have all the wealth at the expense of the Socialist areas. They will demand that the Capitalist areas subsidize the Socialist areas. Hopefully they will be shot.

  13. Jack E. Jett says:

    Amanda

    What should be done with an illegal immigrant child who is ill or hurt and ends up in the emergency room?

    What about an American child without insurance?

    Who is going to take the job of turning them down?

    Who is going to pay for it? The church?

  14. I love how generous people are when they’re spending other people’s money.

    Awesome.

  15. Jack E. Jett says:

    Trey

    Are you talking about the money wasted on the Iraq war?

  16. Missy says:

    Speaking of church. i happen to be LDS (Mormon) and our church has an enormous system of welfare programs that are there to benefit not only congregation members, but also people in our local areas. It helps people pay for their utility bills if they can’t, helps them pay for a critical surgery if they have no insurance and will provide food if they are going to go hungry. We even have funds to pay for kids to go to college if they live in a country where they would never otherwise be able to do so.

    This system is privately run through a huge congregation-funded system that has helped people all over the world for decades…without the help of any government assistance program.

    So to say that the government is the only entity out there that can help people who can’t afford to pay for things on their own is a falsehood. We donate to this system every month. And I never think twice about what that money is being put to because I know it will be well-used. I do not have that same faith in my tax dollars.

  17. Peterk says:

    “What about an American child without insurance? ”
    er-uh JJ if they show up at the emergency room they can’t be turned away there is already a federal law about this.

    show me a doctor who won’t treat an ill child?

    “Who is going to pay for it? The church?” a lot of church going folks do help out others. been proved time and time again that conservatives open up their wallets more than liberals.

    “I know this is clearly a blindspot ..” not nearly as big a blindspot as the one that liberals and leftist have towards the benefits of the free market

    “when a President is trying to save lives” absolutely amazing that for months we have heard that 46 million individuals do not have health care and suddenly last night the President announces that only 30 million individuals lack healthcare. amazing since no legislation has been passed. I like his humble nature in not shouting to the world that HE, yes HE! was able to provide 16 million individuals with health care coverage at what I suspect was the wave of a wand.

    now if only he would wave that wand so I can get my skittles-shitting unicorn

  18. “It is almost like conservatives and liberal live on two different planets. ”

    Conservatives live on the actual planet…the one that exists in space, that you can touch and see. It is the planet where if you go way into debt, you work to find ways to pay off the debt so you aren’t in debt anymore.

    Liberals live on the planet of dreams…the one that only exists in the mind…one you can’t really see or touch. It is the planet where if you go way into debt, you spend a shit load more money that you borrowed or printed because government debt creates prosperity, profit is wrong and mediocre is cool.

    The vast majority of voters who support the liberal planet have no stake in it…and aren’t particularly successful. They are led by crazy people who think that power will be just as good as prosperity once all their policies cause the whole economy to tank.

    The conservatives in government forgot to be conservatives for about 4 years or so and caught the liberal spending virus….they are recovering.

    The only real solution is to vote out the incumbants in the primaries and the general elections for the next 5 or 6 election cycles. Won’t happen because the common voter is a moron.

    So we wait for the collapse and hope the good guys have the most guns.

  19. Matt Nall says:

    Reading the above made me realize that many so-called conservatives are not really “conservative,” they are merely selfish and paranoid, and that just happens to get them to conservatism. It’s more like a symptom rather than the actual problem…

  20. Martin says:

    Liberals can take comfort in knowing that their fellow leftists in the Soviet Union had the perspicacity to discern that political opposition is merely a symptom of underlying mental illness.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Punitive_psychiatry_in_the_Soviet_Union

  21. Jack E. Jett says:

    Who pays for the child that the current law dictates an emergency room should care for?

    Can someone answer the question about the cost of war?

  22. Dave says:

    Yeah, i can answer your question about the cost of war. You voted for Obama so he would end the war in Iraq and bring the troops home and now you’re finding out that he lied to you about ending the war just like he’s lying to you now about healthcare.

    And since we’re all wringing our hands about the lack of decorum in modern day politics, can someone remind me who it was that not too long ago was telling his supporters to “go out and get in peoples faces” and “hit back”? He’s some famous guy, but i can’t quite remember his name for some reason…..

  23. Peterk says:

    “Who pays for the child that the current law dictates an emergency room should care for?”

    the hospital does, but eventually it is added to the cost of everyone else’s stay. before the government stuck their nose into the cost of healthcare. these charity cases were written off

    “Can someone answer the question about the cost of war?”

    well I guess the hundreds of thousands of Iraqis who didn’t die under the thumb of Saddam Hussein would say it was money well spent, as would the Kurds and the swamp Arabs down around Basra.

    Did you complain this much about the cost of Iraq during the Clinton years when we were operating over the no fly zones? did you complain when Clinton sent troops into Bosnia without Congressional authorization? probably not
    and lest we forget what happened tomorrow 8 years ago

    http://bit.ly/Kiv7V

  24. Peterk says:

    “not really “conservative,” they are merely selfish”

    selfish in what way? because they don’t want the government taking their money and spending it wastefully. conservatives traditionally give more to charities and non-profits than do liberals

    I see many wealthy liberals calling for higher taxes and yet I’ve never seen a single one say that they are sending the government more money. Warren Buffett proudly chortles that his secretary pays more in taxes than he does. What is preventing him from rejecting the tax deductions that he takes? not a darn thing. Here in Virginia the esteemed Senator Mark Warner established during his term as governor a fund that folks could send in monies above and beyond what they owed in taxes. That fund is not and has not been flooded by additional funds especially not by liberals like Warner. so don’t talk about conservatives being ‘selfish’ not when liberals are great about talking the walk, but fall down like a drunken Kennedy when they try to walk that talk

  25. I wonder if in 50 years people will all live in our own isolated communities with our own mini governments.

    Tell me more….

  26. Indeed, Vines.

    I like this idea and would like to subscribe to Jack’s newsletter.

    I see no downside.

  27. Pudding says:

    Bloated, centralized government has been rendered obsolete by the information age.

    We live in a time that will be viewed by historians as more tumultuous than the upheaval in Europe that followed the invention of the printing press.

    Buckle up.

  28. Jack E. Jett says:

    I don’t have a newsletter on the topic but have given it much thought. I doubt that it will happen in the generation of baby boomers, but perhaps sooner than 50 years.

    The process would probably more organic that Rick Perry’s suceeding from the union. However, it would almost have to be a state to state situation as
    city/county would create friction.

    It would probably be west coast and parts of the east coast for liberals. The rest for the right wing.

    Here is the cunundrum (sp) is that whatever city I am in the libs think that city is too right wing and the right wingers think it is too liberal.

    Maybe things will improve once my pal, William Redpath finds the right man, woman or transgender to run the country.

  29. amanda says:

    Jack, since you asked:

    Q: What should be done with an illegal immigrant child who is ill or hurt and ends up in the emergency room?

    A:There are currently laws on both the state and federal level that madate treatment of anyone regardless of their immigration status, race, religion or any other subjective factor in the case of “life threatening” illness or injury. The definition of life-threatening is broad and includes such conditions as head or stomach pain of unknown origin, and fever as well as repeat nausea/vomiting (dehydration). All hospitals and clinics I worked with have more specific guidelines to included open wounds, accidents (auto or other), and orthopedic issues. Under the law, the facilty is required to rule out imminent death, and can opt to transfer the patient to another facility once the patient is deemed to be in stable condition. I have never actually seen a hospital transfer, in your example a child (but moreover any patient) presenting at one facilty to another.

    Q: What about an American child without insurance?

    A: The same statutes apply as above. In fact all hospitals have support, admin staff, and social workers to assist uncovered children who qualify to obtain either Medicaid or CHIPS. For example, it costs in excess of $1M per year for Parkland to provide these services as a courtesy to its patient population. However, in as much as 40% of the uncovered minors, they do qualify for some type of aid/assistance.

    Q: Who is going to take the job of turning them down?

    A: It’s a ridiculous question, but allow me to explain how “it” works. At the emergency room, there are administrative staff in place to register and process patients. Although not universal, the job title is usually something like, “Patient Intake Coordinator.” The PIC is responsible for data entry of patient demographic information which includes, but is not limited to the following: Name, DOB, sex, SS# (for ID, if applicable), and religous affiliations (so that clinical staff can be sensitive to a family’s wishes). In the case of a minor, PICs are also required to gather, photocopy, and enter demographic data on the parent or legal guardian as presented. This is done for the purposes of being able to provide the parent or guardian with Informed Consent for treatment. In the event subsequent questions arise about care provided, it is necessary to have the parent or guardian review Informed Consent as provided, and there is a specific legal process in doing so. After treatment, in the case of an ER visit, a patient’s parent or guardian is often asked to stop by the same PIC or cashier to settle charges. If they cannot provide payment at that time, a bill is issued and the parent/guardian is given information in several languages on how to contact the facility’s support staff to expedite coverage with Medicaid or CHIPS. Another factor that has come into play in the last 10 years is the widespread trend toward identity theft or insurance fraud. PICs are specifically trained to provide both privacy and security of demographic data. If coverage cannot be obtained for an uncovered child, the business office of the facility will make affordable payment arrangements with the parent/guardian and/or “settle” the account. It is not uncommon for a business office to take payments of as little as $5 or $10 a month. As long as the parent/guardian are making an attempt to pay, I have never seen a facility turn them into a collection agency or credit burea. In the case of a parent/guardian who makes no effort whatsoever to work with the hospital to find coverage under Medicaid or CHIPS, does not respond to three or more itemized bills, or provides false information, those accounts are turned into a collection agency. This is a last resort which happens only several months after the date of service, and only when all other avenues have been exhausted. In the case of fraudulent demographic information, which is unfortunately common: in Texas, the counties have an indigent care fund. It does not begin to cover the losses that Parkland has, and the private hospitals NEVER get paid, period. However, regardless of ablity to pay, patients are not denied treatment. Dallas also has a community clinic fund that patients can avail themselves of for preventative and chronic condition treatment. The standard for qualifying for Medicaid, CHIPS or the county clinics is, for a family of 4, up to 250% above the poverty level (around $22,000). This means that for a family of 4, they can automatically qualify for coverage on three different levels at an income level of up to $55,000. (There is a sliding scale based on numbers in a household.)

    Q: Who is going to pay for it?

    A: If by “it” you mean healthcare, then I believe I’ve answered that question above. But, for giggles, allow me to expand. In the above answers, I used the qualifications for existing stop-gaps to prevent minors from being uncovered. Let’s say, for example, we are talking about a private hospital, and an uncovered 18 YO patient… That patient also qualifies for the same county coverage, same protections about access as allowed by law, etc. In the event of a catastrophic illness/injury bill that goes unpaid, as another comment addressed, the fee schedule rises incrementally for private pay/covered patients to make up for the uncovered person. This, is the reason why an asprin is $25. And, as above, providers and facilities will accept even small payments. I’ve seen patients with kidney transplant bills in excess of $1M who paid $100 a month split between the doctors, hospital, and other providers. They may never pay the bill in full, but for many patients, it is a choice they’ve made to be responsible for their own bodies and lives. For others, I’ve seen patients declare bankruptcy to full discharge debt due to medical bills. Either way, there are laws in place to protect a patient in recieving care, paying for it, and disposing of it if they wish to do so.

    Q: The church?

    A: Since you asked…yes, there are a number of religious organizations that provide healthcare services and treatments at no charge to patients. In Dallas alone, there are myriad private foundations and faith based programs. Catholic charities, Jewish family services, etc. (Almost every Protestant denomination have some kind of program, area mosques, and even Buddist temples have similar servies.) Many, many doctors provide clinic hours and vaccination/preventative care for free and without tax benefit to thousands of people in Texas. These foundations and groups often employ social workers, nurses, and administrative staff to provide this type of care. Moreover, there are facilites such as Shriner’s and Scott & White which provide care to children, regardless of qualification for free. These facilites don’t even have business or billing offices. In the case of some physicians, for example, Ken Salyer (a former client), they start and run their own non-profit organizations separate from churches open to children/adults worldwide who need reconstructive procdures. Aside from all that, many churches in the US have mobilized doctors to bring our crappy broken healthcare system to third-world countries to save lives. This doesn’t include secular organizations like Doctors Without Borders, etc. Dallas is a hot-bed of these types of global medical outreach. Many churches quietly accept donated unused prescription medications for distribution in undeveloped and superior (*sarcasm*) places like Cuba. Of course, non of that takes away from the trauma of a parent with a sick child, who takes it upon themselves to call doctors, charities, foundations, etc. to say something like, “help, my child is sick.” Many of the churches you mock have funds in the budget to pay for emergecy needs in the community. In fact, many churches will contact members on an as-needed basis to solicit specific funding in the event of a person in need. And, of course, that doesn’t include the millions of teenage youth programs holding bake sales, car washes, and pass-the-hat collections to fund medical treatments for people in need.

    Let me know if you have any other questions.

  30. Dallasite says:

    “Can someone answer the question about the cost of war?”

    About $140 billion per year for both wars in Afghanistan and Iraq combined. This is less than the Medicare prescription drug plan that was passed during Bush’s first year in office.

    A single aspect of medical coverage that only applies to seniors costs more than two wars.

  31. Jack E. Jett says:

    Amanda

    Thanks for taking the time to explain. I am a bit of a blogoholic and read both right and left wing blogs. Perhaps, for no other reason than an insatiable appetite of curiosity, I REALLY do try and understand where all sides are coming from. We say at the beginning of every radio show to open your mind without fear of your brain falling out. I ask that of myself when interview Orly Taitz, Joe the Plumber, or Pastor Steve Anderson, and even the creator of the Bumper Dumper or the IPhone device that lets you know when you can go pee at the movies without missing any sex/nudity/plot twist. Always looking for a common ground, I have found it to be humor, dogs, parents, children,
    and lack of money.
    So anytime someone gives me an insight to their belief system with something other than
    quotes from bumper stickers or Bible quotes, I am most appreciative. Thanks again

  32. Daniel says:

    There’s a program to let you know you can go pee without missing nudity?

    Right. Chuss.

    When I missed the Big Lesbian Scene in Mulholland Drive due to urination — I can still see the look of collective pity I received from every guy in the theater as I returned to my seat — I almost felt entitled to a refund.

    Look, I have previously claimed “we are doomed” or somesuch nonsense, but things are clearly looking up for humanity — specifically breast-loving males who drink beer. Redundant several times over, I know.

  33. Daniel says:

    P.S. Just for giggles, Trey, FB-style, your comments section should render the word “collective” as **********.

  34. Jack E. Jett says:

    http://runpee.com/#app=5c9d&e1bd-RunPeeID=0.0.0&d22f-selectedIndex=0

    Helping your bladder enjoy the movies as much as you……………

  35. @Daniel

    Brilliance!

  36. Frank R says:

    I can’t say that I was surprised to read the report of the speech this morning. (Full Disclosure: I can’t bring myself to actually watch Obama’s speeches. I read them instead. In fairness, I practiced the same thing with Bush.) The first couple of paragraphs of the wire service reported made it sound like Obama had finally made real concessions and stepped out of his box in the speech. I was ready for the new and truly bipartisan Obama. Unfortunately, the reality of the speech as I read the text was not so. It was more of the same. More sky is falling. More we must spend more to save more. More of the evils of insurance. More of anyone opposing these changes is suspect and will be “called out.” That last bit was a doozy. We have a heckler shouting “liar” and a speaker displaying his faux street cred.

  37. Daniel says:

    It would have been better if a drunken Joe Wilson had lumbered to his feet and belted out a few bars of the old chestnut, “Flat-Foot Floogie With the Floy-Floy.”

    “It” being the look Pelosi’s face.

  38. Daniel says:

    the look on Pelosi’s face.

    Biden would have simply been slightly more aroused from a state of slumber, and Obama would be, as ever, cool as a cucumber.

    Of course, we don’t know the whole story. This Whole Flap* might be about more than healthcare reform — it might not be about healthcare at all. Maybe Obama and Wilson are having a torrid love affair and stinging betrayals have occurred.

    ____________________________________
    * The media seems to have christened it Whole Flap.